A former high-ranking division lawyer has conceded he “didn’t see an issue” with the robodebt scheme regardless of being introduced with draft recommendation that discovered it to be probably illegal.
Paul Menzies-McVey, who was briefly appearing chief counsel within the division of human companies, turned deputy – after which chief – counsel within the division of social companies in 2019, fronted the royal fee into robodebt on Tuesday.
In a three-hour session on the second day of the ultimate listening to block, he admitted there was concern about the potential for the scheme’s unlawfulness on the time it was in operation.
And, regardless of figuring out then that considerations had been raised concerning the potential illegality of the scheme, Mr Menzies-McVey informed aiding counsel Justin Greggery that he “didn’t turn his mind” to the numerous penalties the scheme was having for recipients.
The automated debt restoration scheme operated between 2015 and 2019, wrongly recovering $750m from 380,000 welfare recipients throughout that point, inflicting many to take their very own lives as a result of impression of debt notices.
He admitted he and others within the division had first acquired draft recommendation from Clayton Utz in 2018 that had highlighted considerations concerning the scheme’s legality however was assured the difficulty was going to be resolved.
“There was … an undesirable level of uncertainty about the legal underpinnings of the scheme, but steps were already under way to resolve that uncertainty in the best way possible,” he mentioned.
Mr Menzies-McVey informed the royal fee the recommendation from the regulation agency had sat largely untouched for nearly a yr as a result of he “was looking in a forward direction rather than a rear direction”.
“I think that I was looking towards managing the current issues … I was looking in a forward direction rather than a rear direction,” he mentioned.
“I didn’t see an issue.”
Mr Menzies-McVey mentioned it was shocking the preliminary recommendation had been handed to the division of social companies fairly than human companies.
He mentioned a choice had already been made to transient the Solicitor-General, and he thought that may have “overtaken” the Clayton Utz recommendation.
“I thought that in a period of a month or two, we’d have definitive and authoritative advice from the Solicitor-General,” he mentioned, earlier than admitting the method of briefing the Solicitor-General had been delayed by the 2019 election.
“They were waiting for the new minister to be sworn in. Shortly after, the minister confirmed that advice should be obtained,” he mentioned.
He instructed that there had been a pause on getting recommendation about this system, however this system itself had not paused.
When requested by commissioner Catherine Holmes whether or not he had requested “what on earth” had been occurring with the Clayton Utz recommendation for practically a yr as much as that time, Mr Menzies-McVey mentioned he “didn’t ask what decisions were made”.
“My view was the decision to seek the Solicitor-General’s advice made progressing the Clayton Utz advice less relevant,” he mentioned.
“I thought the issue had been overtaken; the Solicitor-General advice would be the only advice the Commonwealth would rely upon.”
When pressed additional by Ms Holmes and requested if he was snug with individuals within the division being informed to “let this thing just sit there for almost a year”, Mr Menzies-McVey mentioned he was “looking towards managerial issues and didn’t see an issue”.
Mr Menzies-McVey mentioned he “didn’t recall” endeavor any investigation into whether or not the draft recommendation was being progressed, together with filtering by to the Solicitor-General.
The program might solely have been deserted if there had been official, high-ranking recommendation.
He mentioned he didn’t think about the impression it was having on individuals.
“I was happy that the Solicitor-General was going to finally determine and resolve it,” he mentioned.
“My focus was very much on the present and the immediate future rather than the past. It was more important to resolve issues.”
Mr Menzies-McVey additionally admitted to destroying diaries in the course of the time investigations into robodebt have been underneath approach, as was his “practice”.
He informed the royal fee he had met with the ombudsman however couldn’t keep in mind the small print.
Nor did he keep in mind the senate inquiry into the scheme, nor Christian Porter being the related minister on the time.
The royal fee continues.
Mental well being assist strains – Lifeline and Beyond Blue
Source: www.perthnow.com.au
